Joey: 0:13

welcome back to the podcast. Today we have a very special guest with us on my couch and I want to introduce you all. This is caitlin hello everybody um, caitlin is my partner's best friend and, by association, my best friend. That's right, um. I pestered you and asked you a couple times to come on the pod. I know you're an avid listener to the podcast, so thanks for listening.

Joey: 0:46

Of course, yeah, I'm excited to listen to your journey because I don't fully know your story and I think there's so much added value to a queer person's journey. As you know, the podcast is kind of stemmed from talking about where we started, where we are today, in the present, how we got here and like what challenges we face and how we kind of got through them. So are you ready to get into it?

Joey: 1:15

I think I'm ready, let's do it so typically in the podcast, what we do is we kind of start with your early years and like how the journey of you came about and like where you started getting these feelings from. And so talk to me about like your early years, when you were younger. Like, did you have, like, gay tendencies? Did you, you know, look at women and think that you're attracted to them? Like tell us your story, starting from the beginning, and then we'll kind of get to where you are today and then start with that okay take it away take it away.

Kaitlyn: 1:49

So, yeah, thinking back to the beginning of my gay journey, I can't recall like an exact moment where I was like, I think, think I like women. The first thing I want to say is I'm bisexual, so, which is very for me, it was very confusing growing up because I had so many like crushes on boys and but then, like always in the back of my mind, like there was this little thought of, oh, but I'm going to marry a woman, like sometimes I would think that, or like me and my friends, would you know, talk about certain things, and in the back of my head I was like, oh well, that won't be an issue for me because I'll be with a woman. But then also at the same time, same time, I was like, oh, but I really have a crush on this guy and I hope we end up together.

Kaitlyn: 2:48

So it was like very conflicting thoughts totally and I feel like when you're younger too, you don't, I don't know, I don't even know when I realized that being bisexual was like a thing, like to me. It was like you're either gay or you're straight, so it was just you kind of follow, like the natural norms of society yeah how old were you?

Joey: 3:10

when you refer to yourself as like bisexual, what age are you referring to? Probably what's clear to you versus the unclear, because I feel like for me, when people ask me, I can't go back as far as people think that I can like yeah, it's quite unclear for me yeah, like when people say I knew when I was four, I'm like, no, not me.

Kaitlyn: 3:31

Um, one of the like strongest memories. Like I feel like there's always been little like thoughts here and there, but they feel almost insignificant, like you know. But I can remember when I was about 18 and I was working in a restaurant and there was a lesbian that worked there and she was probably in her 30s and I just really wanted to talk to her and be like, can I sit down and ask you like how did you know that you were a lesbian? Like I just had so many questions for her and like to me that was probably one of the moments where I was like if I really want to ask someone all these questions, I feel like it's an indicator for me that, like, if you're gonna ask somebody or you're taking the like, am I gay?

Joey: 4:15

quiz yeah, you're curious yeah there's like your curiosity is the peaking?

Kaitlyn: 4:20

yeah it's kind of like well, maybe there's your answer, yeah, or like not necessarily like you have to be gay, but that that curiosity is there. So, yeah, probably when I was 18 was the first time it really became like a deeper thought for me.

Joey: 4:34

Like accepted thought.

Kaitlyn: 4:36

Yeah totally.

Joey: 4:46

You're 18, you've kind of come to this terms that you're like I could be interested in both sexes. Um, what does that look like for you at this age? Like, are you in a relationship? Okay?

Kaitlyn: 4:52

so I am in a relationship, currently currently engaged to a woman, yay, um which sometimes I still have to give my head a shake and just like, wait, is that real? Because, well, I feel like I'm going to contradict myself because I said at the beginning I was like, oh, but that won't be me, because I'll marry a woman. But then, as I started to grow up, I had boyfriends and then, you know, I was like, oh, I'm going to marry a man, but I'm curious about being with a woman, but I'll, I'll marry a man anyways, but I'm curious about being with a woman, but I'll, I'll marry a man anyways. So, you know, when I kind of think about what my reality is now like being so happy and so in love and planning to spend the rest of my life with a woman I always think I'm like, wow, it's kind of like I did it moment.

Kaitlyn: 5:39

You know Cause I think as well, for being bisexual, I was like my life could very happily have panned out and been with a man, and that's that. And I think there are a lot of bi-curious people out there who never explore that curiosity, and I always thought, oh, that's gonna be me. You know, like I'll never, I'll just never get my chance to, to explore that side of me and, yeah, sometimes I'm just like I did it, you know, like something that felt like such a big thing is now just my normal day-to-day life it is a big moment right like you know, being able to like step off that, like cliff almost, and like take that risk because at the time.

Joey: 6:23

That's what it feels like you know you feel like the whole world's watching, like am I supposed to be doing this? Is this normal? Like I think the safety net here is that, like this podcast is a place where we can talk about those feelings like openly and like they're so real and they're so valid. You know, and I just, yeah, like even me it falls into the stereotypical, you know, queer male person. Yeah, really struggled with accepting who I am and like coming forward and coming out and you know, being in public and pda, like all these like scary, you know, realizations.

Joey: 7:02

Yes, I want to marry a man and yes, I want to be with a man in the future, but coming to terms with that and then like showing the world that it's such a vulnerable situation. So I definitely empathize with you and like the, the situations you've gone through, because I feel like every kind of queer person goes through those phases. I think in your situation it's so unique because you don't necessarily follow the stereotypical like norm of a lesbian, whatever that may be, maybe, like you know, media or is pushing that. So, um, I think, and that's why I understand more. So like your confusion with like who am I and how do I fit in piece, and I think that kind of um yeah gives a better understanding now listening to.

Joey: 7:58

Obviously you talk about your story and like your journey and carry on, sorry.

Kaitlyn: 8:02

I think what you said as well. They're like who am I and how do I fit in, or something you said something along that line don't quote me.

Joey: 8:10

I don't remember.

Kaitlyn: 8:11

Yeah, it was something along that line. It made me think, um, and even back to your recent episode with your friend Briley as well, how you know, she said something too not to quote her because I can't remember exactly, but it's which I feel like is very valid, because there was one time where I felt this way too, where curiosity became like okay, well, I do enjoy women, but at the end of the day I'm only going to date a man, and it was kind of that way for a couple of years. And then, you know, I did question like well, if I haven't been in a relationship with a woman, nor do I know if I ever ever will be, is it fair to say like I'm a part of the community? And you know, like I felt like I didn't. You know, if I went to any lesbian events or anything like that, I'm like well, it's why I didn't actually go to any of those at that time, because I was like I don't belong there anyways that makes sense.

Joey: 9:23

That's totally valid. I, I again understand where you're coming from and that you know who am I and how do I fit in. So I think what's so great about the queer community is it doesn't matter how you identify who you show up as, like you are always welcome and that's like what you're talking of I resonate with. But I also feel like they're very internalized fears build within ourself to protect ourselves. Or you know to. You know, I don't know why we do it, but like these fears that we like self-install and the self-sabotaging like system that we create. So, um, yeah, I, I don't know why we do that, but uh, what I do know is, um, I understand the feeling of you know not being ready to go to these queer events or these you know entering into the community because you're not sure like where you fit in and what's it.

Joey: 10:18

Someone else asks you like are you a lesbian? You're like that's like the scariest question. Like you're like how do I answer? Like I don't want to lie to them, and then you know if I say I'm bi but I've not actually been with a woman yet. Yeah, you know, and primarily I'm dating you know men like am I lying and does do I align with their community? And I don't want to see like a rainbow, like washer, like you know, like there's all these scary terms and stuff. But I think, as long as you're just true to yourself and, um, you know, I I don't think anyone in the queer community and I don't want to talk for other people, but personally I would like to think that you're welcome anywhere as you are, who you are and and the way you show up. So yeah.

Kaitlyn: 10:53

But the hard thing from my perspective as being bisexual and I've heard these, you know similar things online before is that yeah, if I show up to go to pride with my boyfriend, then oh well, you're straight. Well, no, but I'm bi, right, and you'll always be the other thing, if that makes sense. So it's like you can never just be bisexual. It's always going to be like putting you into a different category thing. So I think that's where it makes. Unless you're like in a relationship with a woman, then at least how I used to feel was like well then, I don't belong anyways, which isn't true, right, yeah?

Kaitlyn: 11:39

but it's just and that's something that, yeah, as individuals like it's just. And that's something that, yeah, as individuals like it's just your own journey of accepting yourself and also kind of losing that sense of caring what others think, like, oh, if you can't understand the concept of being bisexual, then I guess that's on you.

Joey: 11:57

Like truly, like honestly, like there are days when I leave the house with my partner and me and you know Katlin were talking about the other day and we were like like do you think it's weird that I don't hold your hand in public? And he's like no, it's just you. And I was like I know, but do you think it's weird? Like I don't like doing that because I don't like to cause attention to like our union and like I don't like to.

Joey: 12:18

You know people to like talk about me or feel like people are gossiping about me like even though I'm very queer and walking down the street like in my tap shoes.

Kaitlyn: 12:26

I'm just okay, I'm not, but like, do you know what I mean?

Joey: 12:28

Like I'm very like, open with who I am and accepting, but I, I I just again don't want to like I'm not a big fan of PDA either and stuff, so like I don't really. Yeah, I'm segueing, but I feel like I'm trying to relate to your emotion piece and, like you said, when you go to Pride, if you were to go with, like you know, a man who has the opposite sex to you, obviously, and then you would be labeled as someone straight Versus, if you go with as a same sex couple, couple, you'd be welcomed. But I feel that I think a lot of people think that and a lot of people, like you know, internally have that battle. Yeah, um, but there's no like line. You have to cross, like our threshold to be like this is me and I'm gay and again, like these are just labels that we give to ourself to establish roles and like permissions in like society, and I think that's the beauty of being queer. So we talked and touched lightly on you being a fiancee, congratulations.

Joey: 13:34

Thank you to our beautiful Celeste yes she's uh gonna hate me for full naming her she will, will.

Kaitlyn: 13:41

That was the first thought in my mind.

Joey: 13:43

That was the first.

Kaitlyn: 13:43

the only rule Don't full name me on the podcast.

Joey: 13:48

Okay, Well, Sal our sweet baby, angel, your fiance. Tell me how you both came about and how that relationship formed.

Kaitlyn: 13:59

Yeah, it's. It began because I for lack of a better word stalked her on Instagram.

Joey: 14:08

You initiated the kind of like process. So, touching base on what we just talked on, where are you in your journey? Are you accepting of who you are? You're confident your bisexuality? You've been with other. You know um same-sex partners before.

Kaitlyn: 14:27

Yes, okay, I found her on Instagram. And I actually found her through a different lesbian that I was following already on Instagram and they were friends and they lived together. And that's how I started seeing Sel through her stories. And the first couple times that I saw her on this other girl's story I just thought, oh, she's really cute. And then it became more of a has this girl posted yet? Because I want to see Sel. Is she on there?

Kaitlyn: 15:00

And then eventually they decided that they were going to Australia together and I thought, oh great, I've missed my opportunity, like I don't know when she's coming back. And then I saw a post or something that the two of them were coming back or something. I don't know, but they were coming back soon. And I thought, okay, I need to plant the seeds now, like I need to make my move now. And so I didn't want to be the person who just slid into the DMs and just, hey, I think you're cute, like let's meet up, you know. So my plan was I'll follow her like a couple of pics, which is so cringy because that's just it's. It's not something I would ever do and I feel like that's the 21st century dating.

Kaitlyn: 15:51

I guess it is kind of yeah, I mean, what wouldn't?

Joey: 15:54

be normal is if you liked all of her photos, followed her, unfollowed her, blocked her did I get your attention literally yeah so, yeah, followed her.

Kaitlyn: 16:06

I only liked a couple of pics. She did the same for me. Okay, and then my plan of attack was I'm going to wait until she posts something funny on her story that's worthy of me responding to and spark a conversation. So she posted her skating or something and all I did because I couldn't think of anything to say, I just did like the reaction a crying, laughing face and she actually left me on read for like 10 minutes and I was like, well, I blew it, because now it's weird if I slide into the DMs after this. And then she ended up replying and was like, oh, I just embarrassed myself or something, and yeah, then we just started talking while she's talking to all her girlfriends who is this cutie just said a reaction to my Instagram like did she do it by mistake?

Joey: 16:53

I'm like yeah, yeah, so yeah.

Kaitlyn: 16:56

Then it turns out she wasn't coming back to Canada for like five months and I was like, great, now we have to keep a spark going through Instagram. But we ended up FaceTiming all the time and talking all the time and then we met as soon as she came back in. Like a week after that, she literally moved in and we started dating. Two years later we're engaged there's the lesbian stereotype.

Joey: 17:19

Yep, there it is. We fit the stereotype.

Kaitlyn: 17:22

There's the u-haul yeah, she literally moved in before we actually became girlfriends, so yeah, were you nervous the first time you met her?

Joey: 17:31

I was so nervous where'd you go, what do you do?

Kaitlyn: 17:36

she's gonna hate that I told the story, but so she comes over and you guys went to wings, didn't you?

Joey: 17:42

no, you're like wings.

Kaitlyn: 17:44

We got chicken wings uh, she comes over and the plan was we were gonna go and get sushi and we did that. We just brought it back to mine to eat. And then I had planned out I was like let's, I bought all the ingredients to make cookies and everything. I thought this would be so cute. And then she did just get back from Australia which is big time change and she's like, oh, I'm kind of tired, like let's just relax, and so we lay in the bed and literally she fell asleep like not even 20 minutes later and she slept for like two hours. So we always joke that she fell asleep on the first date.

Joey: 18:23

It's not where I thought this is going.

Kaitlyn: 18:25

I was like come to the bed she's like oh, I'm tired from laying in your bed. Oh, that's funny. But yeah, then we woke up and we actually went to the bar with her friend, which is funny, because this first date, if it was anyone but Sel I would have been like firstly you fell asleep and now you want to go to the bar with your friends.

Joey: 18:49

Literally. I would be like. This is not Meanwhile. You're like preheating the oven for the cookies I'm making cookies 350.

Kaitlyn: 18:57

So, yeah, it just worked out. And then I think she slept over for like four nights in a row and we just we always joke saying like we're still on our first date, it's just never ended oh yeah, sal the napper, yeah it was so funny, that's so cute.

Joey: 19:16

Well, she must have felt very comfortable. Yeah, for her to, like you know, in your place, like just take a nap for just a cheeky little one yeah, she's gonna hate us for talking about.

Kaitlyn: 19:26

I know we've outed her to the world now that's okay, it's what we do here that's what we do.

Joey: 19:30

We're all about honesty thanks for sharing your story with sal you're welcome, yeah if you don't mind, I would love to talk about your kind of coming out story and what that looked like for you and that aspect of your journey. How old were you? You know who was the first person you came out to?

Kaitlyn: 19:53

yeah, let's kind it's kind of a two-part story. So the first time I came out, I guess, was 2019, that's five years ago, so it's 25 wait, I don't know. Oh, so around 25, 25, 26 why can't I do something?

Joey: 20:15

why did I think it was like 2019?

Kaitlyn: 20:17

because you said 2019 anyways, whatever I was, my 20 and basically I had just broken up with my boyfriend and also the thought of wanting to be with a woman. I'd been thinking about it for years and years and years and at that time I thought, you know, I was like oh what? Like I might never get my chance, like what if this relationship just goes on forever, like I just don't get my chance? So the relationship ended on, let's say, a Thursday and Saturday night. I seized my moment, like I literally didn't waste any time, because I was like I've been thinking about this moment for so long and I just wanted to. I just wanted to have my little experience. And so, funny enough, I texted Catlin, your boyfriend, and I said to him I'm sharing my location with you because I'm going over to someone's apartment.

Joey: 21:20

He always tells me the story. He always tells me and he still has your location on it.

Kaitlyn: 21:24

Yeah, he does. That's so funny, he always checks where you are.

Kaitlyn: 21:28

Where is she. And you know, I didn't want to, um, I didn't want anything bad to happen. So anything bad to happen, so. But funny enough, I had so many gay friends but I never, even though I was feeling this way and having these thoughts for so many years, I never, ever once, opened up to them or confided in them, because I just thought also, this is something I want to do for me, without a single person's input, before I do it, kind of thing.

Joey: 22:04

Right. And also, just test the water.

Kaitlyn: 22:07

Test the water Also. I'm like what if I do this thing? And I'm like, no, that's not for me, so no one even needs to know.

Joey: 22:12

Right.

Kaitlyn: 22:13

But I yeah, I sent it to Kat. I was like, oh, I'm just going to this guy's house, um, here's my location. And um.

Joey: 22:20

You knew, I don't think so.

Kaitlyn: 22:23

I'm pretty sure he didn't, because when I finally told him he's like what anyways? Um, but yeah, and then I think I honestly don't even have a, a big coming out moment to my friends and stuff after that. So there wasn't an exact moment that I can recall. That was a like a, so to say, serious coming out to my friends. But I think I just sent the people that I felt like I wanted to tell a message that was like oh my gosh, guess what I just did last night, and that was kind of it Like last night, and that was kind of it like.

Kaitlyn: 23:05

And then from there I just kind of had a fun summer, would fill them in on the details and I never really had to like formally come out to any of my friends. I feel there was some conversations with one of my friends where he asked me so what is this like? Are you gonna? Are you gonna date a woman? Like, where are you going with this path that you're on? And I'm pretty sure I said to him something along the lines of, well, I don't know, like the, you know, I'll probably never date a woman, but I'm just having fun, but all this kind of stuff.

Kaitlyn: 23:36

And yeah, so it was very casual with my friends and I always felt like being bisexual I I think you should definitely always be proud of who you are, no matter if you are a woman, you marry a man or a woman. Anything but for me, I just thought I'd rather not have this conversation with my family if it's, if I don't have to like if I'm gonna fall in love with a man and marry him, I don't think I need to tell my mom you just feel like you don't need to make it like this extraordinary, like over the top kind of like you're drawing so much attention to something that should already like pre-approved and like okay and like.

Joey: 24:22

By like drawing this attention to it, you can get something that it doesn't need to be and you're except like expecting a response exactly hoping it's going to be positive, but what if it's essentially not, so yeah I, I already know kind of like where that is going.

Kaitlyn: 24:38

Yeah, and I always thought too, if I am going to actually date a girl, then I'll need to have a conversation with my mom. But then you know, as I said, maybe I'll never will and it's just something we don't really need to discuss. And then I met Sel on Instagram and this is how serious I knew my feelings for her were before I even physically met her in person. Us that I knew I had to come out to my mom, but also I really wanted it to be very casual and because the thought of doing that, really I knew that she would be okay with it, because I have lots of gay friends, there's gay members of my family Like I just I just knew it wasn't going to be a thing. But also there's always that little 1% fear that was in my mind being like but what if because?

Kaitlyn: 25:50

I've heard stories and I know people that their experience coming out was not good. So and I thought too you know I keep saying coming out to my mom because I'm like she was the one person on earth that I thought if she's not going to accept me, then I care, you know whereas everyone else, like I, couldn't care if anybody else on earth was like, oh, you're gay, well, I can't have you in my life. I'd be like, okay, then get out of mine, like I don't want you in my life anyways. But for me my mom was the one where that would have broke me. You know, I was like I cannot, and it's just, although I'm very, very confident, or was very confident, she'd be okay with it, it's still that fear. When I decided I wanted to tell her, I wanted to make it a very nonchalant, like I didn't want to plan it because I knew if in my head, okay, this Saturday I'm going to do it, then I would be stressed for so long. And I actually went for brunch, I think, maybe with Katlin, actually, anyways, it doesn't matter.

Kaitlyn: 26:53

And when I went home I was talking to my mom and this is three years ago now, but I was talking to her on the phone and then it just came into my head and I was like why don't I just do it now? Because if I do it now, it's over in the next five minutes, otherwise I'm going to hang up the phone. It's still going to be on my mind that I didn't do it. I'm just going to think about it, that I want to do it and all this stuff. So my mom was finishing the conversation and she's like okay, well, I'm going to go and blah, blah, blah.

Kaitlyn: 27:22

And I was like mom and she's like yeah, and I was like and I was just quiet because I'm like I've started it now and she's like what is it? I need to tell you something. And then, of course, my mom starts worrying what is it? What it? And I was like ah, and I just couldn't find the words. And instantly I'm sweating, like, and also this is over the phone. I think I said that. But and then I was just like I'm bisexual, so that means I like girls too.

Joey: 27:51

Because I was like I don't know, I don't know what she knows. She's like um, what's that?

Kaitlyn: 27:56

and I just immediately started crying because I just feel like that relief yeah, and also it. It honestly felt like a fever dream, like having that conversation with my mom, like and it was just, she was very lovely, like and we talked about it for probably 20 minutes, like she asked all the right questions and but yeah, I know she hung up and she went straight to Google.

Joey: 28:20

What does this mean?

Kaitlyn: 28:22

um, but yeah, like it was, and for probably like an hour after two I was like crying. Oh, I think I know why I wanted to tell her that moment, because that's the first night actually I FaceTime sell as well so actually I told her so like your, like hormones and vibes were so high that you're probably like this isn't.

Joey: 28:41

It's now like you're like I'm in a great spot like. I feel good, my serotonin's boosted exactly so.

Kaitlyn: 28:47

And then, yeah, I remember I hung up for my mom and I immediately texted cell, also, I think, because I really wanted something with cell. I didn't want her to think, oh, she's not even out yet, anyways. So like I felt like I needed to prove that I'm for real kind of thing, you know.

Joey: 29:06

So that you were serious.

Kaitlyn: 29:08

I'm serious yeah, and immediately after I texted cells, like oh, I just came out to my mom, the phone starts calling and I was like this is our first time facetiming, my eyes are puffy. I was like I declined the call. I was like I need like an hour to get ready and whatever. And then that was it. And then everyone else like I just thought I don't care. I said to my mom too I was like you can go and tell whoever you want, do whatever you want with that information. I was like I just I don't care.

Kaitlyn: 29:37

And like how I told my brother, I just I told him a lot later, like when Sal and I were in a relationship, I just called him and I was like, oh, I just wanted you to hear from me, but I have a girlfriend. So, and he was like, oh, okay, like it was just, it was very chill and anyone else? I just yeah, like I just don't care, like thankfully there's been no one who has had an issue with it. But if I ever did come across that, then to me I'm just like okay, well then, just don't be in my life, because you're quite literally the kind of person I wouldn't want to associate with anyways.

Joey: 30:10

So well, it looks like you've got a good network, good support system thankfully yes yeah and um, you have the right mindset of basically who you want to have will respect your decisions and you want to keep them around vice versa, so I applaud that.

Kaitlyn: 30:26

Thank you.

Joey: 30:28

Yeah, one question I do have is is there anyone that you told that was shocked, or like was like oh, you're gay. Is there anyone that like sticks out in your head, like you don't obviously name them, but like gay? Is there anyone that like sticks out in your head, like you don't obviously name them, but like is there an experience that you had that? Like you were like oh, that's not what I was expecting.

Kaitlyn: 30:44

When they were like I think, I think my mom actually, was one, yeah because, well, I think I gave no hints to anybody. You know, I, I, I kept everything completely inside, like I, like I said, I didn't even tell my gay friends like. Hey, I'm kind of thinking about this. I kept a hundred percent of the thoughts to myself and I'm also you know stereotypically what you would think of when you think of just a straight girl, you know like. So I think a lot of people were shocked like no one totally and like.

Joey: 31:23

Also like, knowing, like your past history of like you coming out of long-term relationships with boys and like and men or whatever.

Joey: 31:29

So, um, I feel that that might cloud people's expectation of the new coming out as bisexual. So, um, that's kind of where I was pointing the question out more. So that is like where people people probably weren't expecting it. Um, again, um, reflecting what you said and what I said earlier in the podcast was you don't typically have this stereotypical, outlined lesbian look to you physically and I know that looks different for everyone. So if I saw you in the street I wouldn't, you know, necessarily know that you were a part of the queer community on first approach yeah, you know, and I know that like is again like probably gonna get me in trouble for saying maybe I don't know, like, say it.

Joey: 32:19

Well, you know, I are like are we allowed to like prejudge someone and like identify someone as queer by just visibly looking at them and not knowing them or their backstory?

Kaitlyn: 32:30

I think, whether you're quote allowed to or not, like people do and people will, yeah, but also I think it's sometimes it's easy to tell who is queer, but then sometimes actually surprisingly, this week there's been three times where I've said like something about you know, oh, this guy, and they're like, oh, he's not gay, or like something I'm like, oh, so maybe I should retract my whole statement. I actually have no gaydar, he's not gay, you are Literally, though. Literally.

Joey: 33:05

Okay, so let's talk about potential challenges. So do you feel like you face any challenges or, I guess, bumps in the road or something that, like you know, you weren't so familiar with identifying, as in quotations, a straight female, straight female, versus now coming into, like this bisexual era, dating a woman and taking on that identity? What challenge, what challenges, if any, have you faced during this kind of like transition in, like your identity?

Kaitlyn: 33:40

Well, I think for me, one of the challenges and it's still something that is challenging for me is again, I don't want to contradict what I just said of if you have a problem with me, then I don't need you in my life, but, for example, in the workplace, my job that I do is very like the people that I work with or not work with, but like our, our customers. Yes, they're of an older generation and I just, you know, they always ask me like on a weekly basis oh, you got a boyfriend or a husband? And I don't lie to them but I'm just like no, I don't.

Joey: 34:25

Yeah, oh.

Kaitlyn: 34:26

I got a grandson that would just love you. Oh fun, like whatever, but I just I don't feel the need to be like, oh no, well, I suppose now I have a fiance, but back then I wouldn't, I didn't feel the need to be like, oh no, I actually have a girlfriend, or you know, only because I just think it's.

Kaitlyn: 34:48

I don't know, Firstly, it's not really any of your business and secondly, I just I don't need to. I'm not here to try and change your opinions, but it is something that I think for me, I the reason I say I see it as a challenge is like, well, it's just something I never had to face before, because if I go, do you have a boyfriend? Yeah, I do. Actually, you know, or it almost feels like I'm not being genuine in a sense. And well, they'll be dead soon, so uh, I'm just kidding, I'm kidding um no, um, I think that's super fair as a challenge.

Joey: 35:26

I think my only advice would be to and, and like this is this me in no means does it mean you have to like, say like, stick it to them and be like I'm a lesbian or I'm bisexual.

Joey: 35:37

I'm dating a woman like you know, like in no way do you need to do that, or like I'm gay, or, you know, shove it in their face. But maybe I feel like for me, the best kind of like practice I learned in customer service. Obviously I scream gay especially when I serve. I don't serve, I serve. I would always refer to Katlyn as my partner and kept it very like non-gender specific.

Kaitlyn: 36:07

Yeah.

Joey: 36:08

And for the very confused people and there there's a few of them still out there um ie the older community would be like oh well, she's a lucky girl, yeah and you know I kind of find it humorous. Now I'm like oh yes, she is caitlin yeah, I should identify.

Joey: 36:28

My partner is called caitlin yeah everyone calls him caitlin because the eye is not confusing I mean visibly, I guess it could be confusing but anyways, but yeah, I feel like, uh, my advice to you would be, on this setting of your, of your workplace and customer service um, you could, you know, attempt to say like refer to them as your partner and customer service um, you, could, you know, attempt to say like refer to them as your partner and that would give them like an inkling to go off of something rather than like you know like.

Kaitlyn: 36:56

Oh, no like.

Joey: 36:57

I have a partner or yeah, it's just I.

Kaitlyn: 37:02

Yeah, I do say the word partner sometimes, but then I also this is a whole other thing is. I also hate saying partner because I'm like, well, not in that context, but let's say like a completely different context. Because if it was talking to the older generation that I work with, then I would, yeah, maybe just say that. But if I'm just, you know, meeting a new coworker and I don't, I I'd want to say, oh, me and my girlfriend did this this weekend. But then a lot of times they interpret that as, like, my friend, that's a girl you know, but then?

Kaitlyn: 37:39

but I'm like I don't want to say partner because I'm proud to have a girlfriend at that time. No fiance, but you know. So I feel like I'm getting lost on what I'm saying. No, that makes complete sense.

Joey: 37:54

That makes complete sense. I never thought about that. I mean obviously for the terminology boyfriend yeah boys, don't throw that around like I'm hanging out with the boys.

Kaitlyn: 38:02

Yeah, I'm hanging out with my boyfriends.

Joey: 38:03

Hang out with my boyfriends tonight, yeah you know we're gonna go watch the bachelorette. Uh that that guest never comes up in topic. So like when I say my boyfriend, it's very clear that I have a boy as a lifelong partner. Or like I'm in a relationship with the same sex yeah, so I do? Yeah, I can, I, I am gay. I can see how it would be confusing for other people to be like girlfriend.

Kaitlyn: 38:32

So it's going to be interesting. Like sometimes people do pick up when I say, or when I would say, girlfriend, that I mean romantic. But then it'll be interesting now moving forward, like when I get back to work and stuff, because I don't really see people outside of my regular circle when I'm not working. But it'll be interesting when I say, like, fiance, because that's so gender neutral, new people that I'm meeting who obviously don't know that I'm engaged to a woman, it's going to be automatically, oh he, which I don't mind correcting like peers. But like if I say that to customers, I just know I'm going to be like, oh sure, like I don't know which, yeah it's just yeah and I feel like yeah, otherwise opens like not a can of worms, but like that generational, like I roll.

Kaitlyn: 39:21

Yeah.

Joey: 39:21

Almost and like not that they're disapproving of you I don't think that's but like because they're like oh, I've made a mistake and you know, you've got to. Sometimes they get upset and then you're like I'm sorry. And I'm like it doesn't mean that much to me but like it could to someone. So, like maybe you should just be mindful that, like we're in a new age and like people are queer, and like dating same sex now, and that might not have been a thing before.

Joey: 39:49

People weren't as like comfortable before right, I mean totally like, even like the times and stuff. It wasn't safe and yeah. I recognize that, but I just, yeah, I understand that aspect of your of your workplace must be difficult. Okay, last question, if any, what advice would you give to someone listening to the podcast that might be exploring same-sex relationships or not ready to come out but just need to be reassured that you know their feelings are valid and their emotions are valid and what they're going through is pretty normal.

Kaitlyn: 40:27

So if you have anything you want to add, yeah, I would say to do everything on your own terms. And I think for me that's why you know, I chose to not even talk about it with my um, my friends, like gay or straight. So I was just like I didn't want a single input because it's kind of, you know it, it really did change the whole trajectory of my life. So I'm like I wanted to make sure exploring this side of me was 100% what I was ready to do, wanting to do and just know that I was, I was ready to make that decision.

Kaitlyn: 41:09

So I think, for anybody who's you know, maybe bi-curious or, you know, questioning like, am I gay, am I not gay, or all these things, I just think you know kind of doing that self-exploration and taking yourself on your own journey. But then also I do believe in confiding with those people around you, cause, looking back on you know my life before, um, I'm very blessed to have had, you know, a number of gay friends and I I do wish now, looking back, I'm like why wouldn't I have? Just like you know, I had so many questions and you know, there would have.

Kaitlyn: 41:46

I had such a a community present to me that I didn't even take advantage of um. So if you do have friends you know, gay or straight, like somebody that you can really trust and you know that you can feel confident and safe confiding in them, then I think that's also really good um. But if you feel like it's a journey that you're happy to navigate yourself, like I was, until you're sure of yourself, then that's okay too yeah, that's, that's awesome.

Joey: 42:17

Yeah, that resonates with me a lot yeah and like I feel that, like you took the road you took to ensure that exactly how you were feeling was authentic, oh no, authentic authentically yes, yourself yes, um, rather than having, like outsiders, opinions and people kind of like weighing in on it and you know bringing up, like past relationships or other things which could be conflicting again, like this confusing bisexual background you've got that, you're like, ah, like I don't know, like is it men, is it women? Like I think?

Joey: 42:54

at the end of the day, like what it really comes down to is, like who you are with in the present, and today is where you want to be today or where you see your future or however that might be, and like that might change. Like you know, like absolutely. It doesn't mean that, like you're gay forever, that doesn't mean you're, you know, with this one person forever, or you're this sex forever, because you know we're advancing as like humans and we're we're.

Joey: 43:17

A lot is becoming available to us and as we navigate that, I feel like we're really blessed to live in this time where we are able to be who we want to be yeah, quite literally, be who we want to be and be who with we want to be yeah, absolutely.

Kaitlyn: 43:33

I think one thing I want to throw out there, for the bi community as well, is the bi babies. The bi babies. Just from what I've heard, and from myself too, we're all very we're not all, but a lot of us are guilty of the you know thinking, you know who you're going to end up with you know, oh, but I'll marry a man, kind of thing, or all those things.

Kaitlyn: 43:57

And it makes you question all this stuff. And I remember somebody once said to me well, I feel like you kind of need to know, like going into something like, are you wanting to marry a man or are you wanting to marry a woman? Like you? You probably know what you're looking for. And I remember I was like, well, how can you know who you'll end up with until you fall in love with that person? And I think that kind of cuts by people, a little bit of slack of feeling, so much pressure of you know, when you like both men and women, it's it can create all this confusion. And you know it's sometimes, yeah, it's just confusing. But then if you just give yourself that bit of grace and think you don't, you don't need to plan who you're going to marry in 5, 10, 15 years, it's just let life go and you just marry who you're going to marry in 5, 10, 15 years. It's just let life go and you just marry who you fall in love with.

Joey: 44:51

Live in the present.

Kaitlyn: 44:52

Yeah, live in the present, Be who you are and see where the life takes you.

Joey: 44:57

Everything will fall into place. Yeah, it will.

Kaitlyn: 45:01

It always does.

Joey: 45:03

Well, that brings us to the end of the episode. Thank you for being here.

Kaitlyn: 45:07

Thank you, joey, I've had a great time.

Joey: 45:09

yeah, yep, gay old time an emotional hangover tomorrow yeah thanks for sharing your journey and your experiences and giving you know a wealth of knowledge on um just being by and open possibilities for potentially people listening. Sharing that last little piece of advice that I know that maybe one person that listens to will see value in I hope so maybe add it. Maybe add it to their, their journey. The best thing about this podcast is everyone's journey is different and no two queer people are the same and I think that's what we're recognizing here really quickly. Is that like it's not linear?

Joey: 45:49

yeah, no yeah and like. What's important is that, like, everyone's experience is valid and should be recognized and supported, and you know, getting over that hump sometimes is the hardest thing to do. So, yeah, well, thank you for being here I appreciate your time. Always, welcome back. I'll be back, I think. Cells on the list.

Joey: 46:09

Oh yes, maybe we listen to her story and she's like, yeah, this bitch was just messaging me on instagram all the time sending me the reaction stories to everything and I was just like and remember, I'm not a napper you are, you are that's funny.